Re: Don't buy Martin!

On Mon, 19 May 2008 15:08:54 +0100, <nooooooo@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

> On Mon, 19 May 2008 06:11:07 GMT, "Bob Howes"  
> <bob.howes@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>> <nooooooo@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> news:7m5v24du1o4jntvb94lo7qvg632gg3604o@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> On Wed, 14 May 2008 22:00:18 +0100, "Duncan Wood"  
>>> <bodgedntp@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 14 May 2008 08:21:45 +0100, <nooooooo@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 14 May 2008 23:16:50 +1200, "Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC)"
>>>>> <SCLC@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 13 May 2008 22:36:07 -0500, Christopher Jahn wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The little whining jerk isn't using a pen name to protect his
>>>>>>> identity.
>>>>>>> He's not a whistle blower afraid of retribution. He's not making  
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> political stand that could have professional repercussions. He's a
>>>>>>> lying
>>>>>>> little jackass who has a grudge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That much was obvious,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet you have all jumped to the assumption that it's for no
>>>>> valid reason.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> WEll you haven't yet posted what your issue was?
>>>>
>>>>>> and his unsubstantiated rant should be treated
>>>>>> with the sort of disregard as any rant like that should.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile, I still consider that the use of a nome de plume on  
>>>>>> Usenet
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> perfectly valid - just as not posting using your real email address
 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> just as valid in order to avoid viruses or other malicious stuff  
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> trolls around.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, I have been reading this NG for some time now, and have found 

>>>>>> the
>>>>>> various points of view and suggestions offered to be very  
>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The post that started this thread was quite clearly bogus.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was intended as a warning. Now that I see the reaction, if I ever
>>>>> want to warn about a lame company it would probably be best to
>>>>> say they are fantastic, so people like yourselves will jump to the
>>>>> conclusion that they must be lame. From the "logic" of this group
>>>>> and yourself included I should jump to the conclusion that you
>>>>> disbelieve smoking causes cancer...etc...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope,
>>>
>>> How should someone know when you'll believe the opposite
>>> of what they warn you about, and when they will believe you?
>>>
>>>> we just have a post from you that says Martin are crap without
>>>> telling us what it was you (or according to your 1st post, someone
you
>>>> knew) had as an issue.
>>>
>>> All other comments about the Maxxyz that I've heard have
>>> been bad, except for one guy this past weekend who said
>>> he likes it. My ***** is about their sup****t for learning to use
>>> the thing, since there is none.
>>>
>>>> Now quite a few of us will have happily pointed out
>>>> that Strand won't answer the phone, return your tech sup****t calls & 

>>>> avoid
>>>> you at trade shows when asking for ,say, the pinout of their AV  
>>>> interface.
>>>
>>> Why don't they tell you where to get it instead? Do you think
>>> their behavior is respectable or half ass?
>>
>> Ah, we may be getting somewhere here.
>
> Good. Why don't they?
>
>> You want sup****t for "LEARNING TO USE
>> THE THING".  So...you don't want sup****t, you want lessons and
training.
>> That's something very different.
>
> Do you think any manufacturers can tell you how to use
> their microwave ovens? I wonder if there are any who can
> tell you how to use their software.......hmmm......¿?¿?¿?¿?
>
>> Most people find the instruction manual to be entirely adequate.   
>> Obviously
>> you didn't.
>
> I've figured out a couple of things from it. They didn't even give
> us one when we got the console, and it was another terrible
> experience trying to get one out of them in the long run. When
> we finally did get one--*years!* later--they didn't send an index
> or table of contents with it, so I'm making my own as I go along.
>
>> However, may I ask:  did you ring sup****t with a totally specific  
>> question
>
> I had a couple. One was how to assign a cue list to one of the
> faders. There was no one at Martin who could tell me how to
> do *that*, nor could they tell me anyone who could other than
> to post the question in a forum and see if someone answered
> it. How much lamer can it get? Not very much, that's for sure.
> I needed to know right then, so I dug through the manual until
> I found it. What was the main lesson to be learned? It was that
> a person can not count on Martin to help them with anything
> like that, and should be very common knowledge anyone who's
> considering getting or has a Maxxyz should know and be familiar
> with.
>
>> or was your call along the lines of "how do I make this work?"  If it  
>> was a
>> specific query that you were left with after reading the manual and  
>> trying
>> to make it work then they should have responded.  If, it was "I can't  
>> make
>> it work" then how is anyone expected to answer?
>>
>> From the lack of detail in all your posts here, I suspect you call(s)
to
>> Martin were equally short on detail.
>
> They were very clear on detail, and the reply was very clearly
> that no one associated with Martin could help me unless some
> Martin associate just happened to do so in the forum. So to
> break it down:
>
> When no one associated with Martin happens to answer your
> question in the forum then Martin has performed in the lamest
> way it's possible for an organization to perform, and when
> someone does happen to then they have performed in the
> second lamest way.
>
> Should that not be common knowledge to everyone who's
> considering Martin? If not, why not?


That's the way most lighting desk forums work, who did your initial  
training with the desk?

The manuals on the website, along with the software
http://www.martin.com/service/downloadfile.asp?name=UM_Maxxyz-2.0-color_EN_E.pdf&cat=65

There's a TOC at the front & it's a PDF so you can search it.